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Talking baseball with Daniel Shoptaw
17 Plays1 month ago
Daniel and I talk MLB playoffs, MVP, Cy Young, and Rookie of the year.
We also review the St Louis Cardinal season and what lies ahead.
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Transcript
Introduction and Welcoming Listeners
00:00:13
Speaker
The rumors are true.
00:00:31
Speaker
This is Talking Sports on the Bleachers with John Glenn. A confident young man, a superb athlete. A look at the sports issues of the day. Holy cow! Grab a seat, pop a cold one. Gee, that sounds kind of interesting. And let's talk some sports.
Highlights from a Baseball Game
00:00:55
Speaker
You got to get it done!
00:01:00
Speaker
Ghouls with the widespread stance, arms out over the plate. Bickford from the stretch. The 1-1 pitch. A swing, at Dodger Stadium on September 23rd, 2022. 8.23 PM Pacific time.
00:01:48
Speaker
Badgers have no timeouts, they can't stop it.
Significance of Playoffs
00:02:47
Speaker
Are you crying? There's no crying! There's no crying in baseball!
00:03:02
Speaker
um ive talk about playoffs you kidding me playoffs
00:03:56
Speaker
Well, I... I like that. Like they always tell me I've got, I've got the face for radios. Exactly. I understand that. this All right.
Guest Introduction: Daniel Shoptaw
00:04:05
Speaker
Joining me tonight is Daniel Shoptaw. You know, I'm from C 70 from the site. If you've been on sub stack, you've seen them around. If you've been ah seen the podcast, meet me at the usual. He is the one and only Daniel Shoptaw tonight. We're going to talk a little baseball about everything going. But first of all, how, how are things going, Daniel?
Weather Talk and Personal Reflections
00:04:26
Speaker
They're going well. I mean, for the fact that the season is over and we're starting to, and well, in theory, get into fall, the weather doesn't seem that we are. Um, but, uh, yeah, they're doing and going well. Hope they're going well with you. That's not too bad. I have, I'm having yeah a couple issues here and there physically, but they'll, they'll get better as time goes by. I think so. Uh, but the weather, talking about the weather down there, the weather up here in Illinois, it's, it feels like fall out there.
00:04:52
Speaker
Well, good. Cause it was 90 years. So oh my I would like to, I would like some of that now. Where are you at again? Arkansas, Arkansas. That's right. That's right. That's right. All right.
Pete Rose's Legacy and Hall of Fame Debate
00:05:02
Speaker
Well, um, we'll start this off and, uh, by, uh, announcing or recognizing, I should say the, uh, the passing of Pete Rose. Um, I.
00:05:16
Speaker
I guess I hadn't been paying much attention. I didn't, I didn't know he was, he was that ill or, uh, was ill. I mean, I know he hadn't had made a lot of personal appearances lately, but I just thought he was trying to keep a low profile. Um, so yeah, I, um, I don't know that I knew in particular that he was ill, but it wasn't.
00:05:41
Speaker
Terribly long ago, a few months ago when I really processed the fact or, you know, it was brought to my attention that he was over 80. And, you know, anytime you get to that age, you start, you start wondering, especially all players who, you know, takes it. And especially a guy like him who, you know, took such a beating playing baseball. Oh yeah. Um, so I don't, you know, I don't know that I knew, hadn't had heard anything like it was imminent. So it was a bit of a surprise, but I don't know that, you know, again, when you get to that age, it's hard to say it's a shock. Well, I just pulled up the old bit and it said, uh, he died of natural causes stemming from hypertensive.
00:06:19
Speaker
And I'm going to blow it. I'm going to butcher this, uh, at the, or clear, clear,otic cardiovascular disease. Yeah. he He had a, yeah, he had called daughter. He's just what I think is what that is. Yeah. So, but, um, I mean, man, I, yeah, you think back and I was, I was, uh,
00:06:41
Speaker
You know, a kid when he, when he played and everything and, and, you know, just kind of watching how he played. together I remember one story and I can't remember who told it. Um, uh, it was one of the, it was ah during a Cardinal broadcast. They were interviewing somebody and they said, uh, talking about the the manager was saying, you know, I've got a guy that can run down to first base in, uh, six and a half seconds flat.
00:07:07
Speaker
When Heather, I guess the other GM, he was talking to says, well, how, why is that? And so impressive. You can look at him, he goes on a walk.
00:07:18
Speaker
You know, and, but he could think of that was Pete Rose. I mean, you know, he, he always ran out everything. And I, and of course the, the little one thing that everybody remembers, I can't, the, the iconic, uh, uh, video of him running over Ray Fosse in the all-star game. Yeah.
00:07:37
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, it and I think even that that speaks to the complicated nature of Pete Rose, right? Because that was an all-star game. And I know that that the teams took the all-star game more seriously back then, but it still wasn't a game that then you know back actually mattered. It had no meaning to it. And so for him to and pretty much, you know, intentionally run over Fosse like that. And from what I remember ending his career, you know, yeah, wouldn yeah in one respect, it's like, wow. Yeah. The hard, the hard nose player that never takes a minute off. But the other part of it is a bit of a psychopath, right? I mean, you know, where is this, you know, where is this idea of let's, you know, of of temperament and things of that nature. So,
00:08:32
Speaker
Um, you know, I don't know that there's anybody else in baseball that is quite as complicated and maybe, as it maybe I've already said that word, but complicated as Pete Rose and and all that he had it going on with him. Oh yeah. I mean, and the the whole thing of, of, um,
00:08:54
Speaker
You know, I, I've seen a lot of people now saying, okay, is it isn't it finally time to put him in the hall of fame? I mean, if you look at the career he's got, I mean, you can't ignore the numbers. I mean, uh, 4,256 hits, uh, 1,314 RBI is 193 stolen bases.
00:09:13
Speaker
You know an average of 303 with a 375 vote on base 409 slug of 784 OPS. I mean in over 14,000 at bats. You know um I you know I I know they wanted. They're still trying to hold the thing of the no gambling and no betting on baseball and all this, but. um That rings to me a little hollow.
00:09:42
Speaker
with the recent Shohei Otani ah shenanigans.
00:09:49
Speaker
and like Yeah. um Well, and I think it there it's it's. It's less that for me. and And I'm still one, and i you know i mean i'm I'm not one that thinks, I'm one that thinks that Pete needs to stay out because you know the rules were there, he saw them, he you know completely um ignored them. um It was funny, there was a story, and I think I've seen the story before, but it was reported in Jason Stark's article today at the Athletic where
00:10:25
Speaker
They set up a meeting with Pete and Bud Seelig when Seelig was commissioner. And, you know, they, they talked this thing out of how would this reinstatement work? And it was basically, look, you're going to have to apologize. You're going to have to say, this is wrong. You're going to have to, and then you're going to have to stay away from anything that looks like gambling. And Pete, I don't think, I don't know if he agreed to it or not, but immediately after he left that meeting, he went to a sports book in Las Vegas, you know, and then, and then I've heard that. blu Yeah.
00:10:54
Speaker
Yeah. and And so to some degree, this is a man that couldn't get out of his own way, right? oh yeah what What was his passion? Was his passion for baseball? What was his passion for making money? Or was his passion for competition where they're on the field or off? ah yeah I don't know, but I have, I have a problem putting him in, but when baseball now spends every waking minute,
00:11:21
Speaker
promoting Giraffe Kings and FanDuel and putting the odds up there and talking about it on all through the podcast and being sponsored by Bally's. And when next year there'll be FanDuel
Modern Baseball and Betting Implications
00:11:32
Speaker
on the broadcast. ah Yeah. I mean, then it's like, where do you draw that line? Because you're asking, you're asking for another Pete Rose in that situation. And we, I think you got really close to that with Otami's situation this year.
00:11:46
Speaker
Oh, I think so too. And, and, you know, I, I'm kind of on the fence with the whole, whether he belongs in a hall of fame or not, you know, like I said, you know, he does have the numbers, but and as you pointed out and you're, you're a hundred percent correct. I mean, you knew the rules going in.
00:12:05
Speaker
You know, and they were there for a purpose. Uh, you know, you want to go to date it back to the Joe Jackson and and the black Sox, you know, you knew why the rule was there. And if you choose to break that rule, um, you know, the consequences are there. Uh, and I, I, you know, so I, I, I can see your point and, and, but I can see it the other way that, you know, how can you not talk about.
00:12:34
Speaker
baseball and not bring up Pete Rose. Well, and that and that's true. um what i And I think that's where I come. And I've talked about this in different scenarios than just Pete Rose.
00:12:47
Speaker
but The story of baseball is told in so many different ways, especially nowadays, that, you know, Pete Rose doesn't have to be inducted to the Hall of Fame. I mean, he's, he's got memorabilia there. He's got, you know, some of the, you know, bats and gloves and all that kind of stuff. They display that. So people coming through do see about Pete Rose. Um, you know, there's podcasts, there's, there's videos, there's, there's so much stuff out there.
00:13:17
Speaker
That I'm of the opinion that getting inducted into the Hall of Fame while a great honor for these players isn't the. Let's tell the story about baseball the way that a lot of people say that is because I mean, there are so many people in the hall of fame from the twenties and thirties and whatever that if you told even a fairly regular fan, they're just their name. They wouldn't know that they were a player, right? I mean, yeah so being inducted doesn't tell the story. He's staying out of it. Doesn't, doesn't keep you out of the story. I think it's where I come from.
00:13:54
Speaker
Yeah. And, uh, you know, uh, mentioned also that as a manager, he was 412 wins, 373 losses, uh, have had the you reds first. And they would finish first in the, I guess the the division in 88 and 89 never won a world series, but.
00:14:18
Speaker
You know, so, but, you know, sad passing though, of Pete Rose and, uh, condolences to his family and, uh, all the baseball for that. Yeah. in And I will say I, and I need to, there was a book that came out in March, uh, called Charlie hustle. It was written by, uh, Keith O'Brien and, uh, it's a real, if anybody's wanting to know ah ah like a, a more, a modern, you know, kind of telling of Pete Rose's story.
00:14:46
Speaker
Um, you know, from the beginning to the end, it's, it's a really good book. Um, you know, and it kind of takes looks at Pete, you know, both in the, in the positive light, but also, you know, some of the the drawbacks that he had. Yeah. Okay. I'll have to check that one out for sure. Thank you. All right. Well, uh, the playoffs are in, in tag are underway and, um,
00:15:09
Speaker
You know, as we know, uh, the Cardinals are not in it so we can, we can feel free to talk the way we want.
00:15:18
Speaker
Um, uh, let's see, uh, let's see. A hair couple of games are already played earlier today. Uh, the Tigers beat the Astros three to one.
00:15:34
Speaker
mats beat the brewers eight to four royals took the Orioles one to nothing and right now the Braves and Padres are in the top of the fourth Padres leading three to zip um i mean i guess in in in a lot of respect some some of what most of the Um, um, um, top writers, analysts, whatever we're seeing is coming through it. You know, your two top teams were going to be, uh, the Yanks and the, and the, and the Dodgers. And I think that, you know, I don't think anybody was really arguing that in any way, any stretch of the imagination. Um, although the Padres did, did, did try to make it a game there, uh, a race there for a little bit. And then I think the Dodgers has wore them out. Um,
00:16:24
Speaker
How do you see that everything playing out?
00:16:28
Speaker
I don't I don't know. I mean, I I will say that my focus. over the last, I mean, I've been writing a blog for 17 years. So it really probably that long, if no longer has narrowed so much to the Cardinals that I don't always know well enough of what else is going on in baseball, which is right to my detriment. Um, but it seems to be that it's, man, it's, it's hard to go against what the Phillies do. Right. I mean, they didn't have.
00:17:02
Speaker
They had a good, they had a great regular season. They seem to be getting healthy. They seem to have all sorts of pieces um and they get a chance to rest. And I think this is going to be another one of those years. Like, you know, last year we saw those first round buys struggle a little bit in the first game or two. And and I think even maybe the Dodgers got knocked out in the first round. It is going to be interesting to see if that happens again. And if so, if that leads to any changes.
00:17:30
Speaker
But, um, yeah, I mean, that's probably who I would guess I would go with right now. I mean, it would be very interesting to see the Yankees back in there because it's such a drought for the Yankees, especially given their history. Um, well yeah but I think it, I mean, and I guess probably maybe that's what you look at. You pick, as you pick Billy's and, and Yankees and you, it feels like a mid eighties world series with those two teams. Mm-hmm.
00:17:55
Speaker
And, you know, of course, the I guess the way I meant, yeah I did not, I failed to mention the Phillies and the guardians. I mean, all four of those teams got their, their first round by, if you will, which are you a big
Impact of Expanded Playoffs
00:18:08
Speaker
fan of the expanded playoff with adding the extra wild card and all the, and now the buys and all the other stuff that they put in. You don't.
00:18:18
Speaker
I haven't liked the, I didn't like the original wild card. Okay. And other Cardinals have had some benefit with that. But my preference is it if you were to have something like this is you have four divisions of four teams each, um you'd have to expand. Um, and the division winners move, ah you know, that's, that's who's in your playoffs. Um, I don't like,
00:18:44
Speaker
I don't like the fact that, you know, you can dance around. Well, i mean the Cardinals were what 83 wins and some years that might've been really close to that in their third wild card. Yeah. Right. And and you're in I think that it affects the trade deadline because more people think they're in it. And so they don't trade off players.
00:19:05
Speaker
And so you get, you know, four teams that can trade anybody. um I think it, you know, waters down the regular season. I don't like to buy because that's not baseball, just have a team sit for five or six days waiting on their competition.
00:19:23
Speaker
Right. So yeah, no, I mean, there's there's so much of what baseball does now, though, that I don't like because I'm an old grump and, um, you know, and baseball is not, baseball is not targeted to me anymore. I mean, that's just, that's just the way it is. They know that I'm going to pay attention and we're watching and they don't have to worry about me. Um, so, you know, I mean, I'll complain about it till right.
00:19:46
Speaker
tell I'm in the grave and maybe I didn't have my obituary listed too but um but you know it's not going to change anything. No, it's not and you know and and you know as much as I would like to see a more simplified playoff system because you know i mean i don't know i don't know how about I grew up when there was just only two divisions. You had the east and you had the west. right right You know, and, um, which were, did also didn't make geographical sense because the Cardinals were in the East. Yeah. i Yeah. Well, it made the reds were in the West and the reds were in the West. And so was Atlanta and Atlanta and the reds were in the West. And I never understood that. I don't like, okay. Somebody makes sense of it to me, but they never could. Um, but yeah, I mean, so I, you know, I grew up with, with that. And then when they added three, I said, okay, you got the three that, uh,
00:20:40
Speaker
That made sense to have the add the wild card just so you had an equal number. And like you said, there was no team sitting for five or six days. um Why they thought they, I mean, I know why it's more money, more TV revenue, more yada, yada, yada, yada, yada. But did it, I mean, has it really helped i the the the fans watching the game? I mean,
00:21:09
Speaker
Yes, you've got more fans interested because there are more teams in, but are they really is the money that good? I guess is what I'm asking. I'm sure it is. I mean, it's, it's a whole nother round of, of, you know, advertising and and things of that nature. And, and the, the, the markets are, um, or the TV networks are, are really big on supporting, you know, getting that in there because they want that post-season inventory, if you will. Um, so yeah, I'm sure the money is there. Um, I agree.
00:21:42
Speaker
You know, it's so hard to, I mean, it's better, I guess, than, um, you know, what the Cardinals went through and what 20 2021 with, uh, the Dodgers, you know, to lose.
00:21:56
Speaker
Yeah, one game wildcard. Yeah, I was never a fan when they when they did expand it to a one game wildcard. I thought that was just stupid. Yeah, and I agree. um So, but still, I mean, to spend 162 games to get to the playoffs and then, well, look at the what the Cardinals did in 22, right? um If Ryan Hillsley's finger is okay. That's a, I think a very deep playoff run out of that. Oh yeah. But his finger's not good. He comes in and and the game gets blown in game one and they lose in game two. And all of a sudden this team that should have gone deep is now gone is done. Um, you know, at least when they played the best of five, you had, you know,
00:22:43
Speaker
three games, which is not, it is not a lot, but at least baseball does a three game series a lot too. Right. So, um, so yeah, I, I think that it tends to, well, so I've, I've seen it called the random championship generator, um, as the playoffs are, it's just like, it doesn't mean the best team is going to win and just, you know, whoever happens to be good at the right times.
00:23:11
Speaker
Um, you know, that said the Phillies and the diamond or the diamondbacks and the, uh, Rangers made it last year as wall cards. All right. So it's not the extra round. I expected that extra round to be a ah real detriment, right? That they wouldn't, you know, that you're not going to see a lot of wall cards again. Um, and yeah it wasn't last year. So I don't know. I don't know. Maybe it is a little bit more.
00:23:37
Speaker
Intriguing for some because, because of the randomness, I just don't know that it's really, you know, baseball that way.
Cardinals' Playoff Strategy Critique
00:23:44
Speaker
Yeah. And I tend to grand in which is something you said earlier about, um, it kind of makes the regular season almost irrelevant or, yeah and I think that's where a lot of people would be thinking about the the Cardinal fans now, you know, have been down on the organization and it's been primarily,
00:24:04
Speaker
And I'll, i I'll call the spade a spade, you know, what most comment, uh, well, we just kind of get into the playoffs and, and see what happens from there. I mean, if that's all you're planning to do is limping the playoffs, then you really don't, if you're playing good, you don't have, or we're not necessarily good, but if you're in, in, in contention, you don't have to do a heck of a lot at mid season. And I think we've seen that over the last three, for four years in St. Louis.
00:24:35
Speaker
When they get to the mid season, even if they're playing fairly well and they're in a ah pretty good, contention spot, they tend not to do anything. I mean, you know, uh, the, I go cut back about three years. I was three years ago. I think it was when they brought in Hap and, uh, Lester, yeah you know, I don't think they, they really envisioned those guys doing what they did. Um, you know, uh,
00:25:04
Speaker
And, uh, who was the other, the other guy, uh, LeBlanc LeBlanc. Yeah. white Um, you know, they brought those three guys in, you know, the ARP squad, as I called it and, you know, and then, you know, they did well, uh, they got them in, but so it's just like, you could have gone a little higher up the food chain, gotten that.
00:25:31
Speaker
number one you needed for the rotation, you know, parted with a couple pieces and you could have made a deep playoff runs that are getting kicked out in the first round.
00:25:41
Speaker
Yeah, but you didn't, I mean, you didn't need to, you didn't need to spend that money because you got into, you got in. yeah didn't So, I mean, yeah, I mean, that's the thing is that, you know, ownership was going to want it. Um, because it's, you know, it's free money to some degree, um, better chance at money. Um, and TV wants it. I mean, a lot of people want it and it just doesn't mean that it's right for the game. Um, but, uh,
00:26:10
Speaker
ah Couple of just a couple of quick things. What do you think, uh, as far, and I know you may not have followed, yeah i I'm kind of like you, I had to look some things up to just check on all on a lot of this stuff, but, um,
00:26:27
Speaker
It just seems to me, i you were talking about the end of the year awards. Um, you know, I think it's set in stone. I mean, who do, who do you see knocking out Otani for a nationally MVP?
00:26:38
Speaker
I mean, it'd be really difficult, right? I know for, you know, getting into that last couple of weeks, there was the, the, you know, the Francisco Lindor argument. Yeah. And, you know, and Lindor hitting the home run yesterday that kind of, you know, that put the Mets in the playoffs.
00:26:54
Speaker
Um, you know, has some cache, but, um, yeah, a guy that, you know, uh, you know, 50, 50. And not only that does it, you know, with room to spare, right. Um, plus everything else that he's done. Um, I, I get the argument that he didn't play in the field. I'm, you know, I'm not a big, you know, universal DH guy, but when a guy puts up like that,
00:27:18
Speaker
yeah but Yeah. And in it in it and you're right. In a Dodger team that didn't just run away and hide, like we thought they might, but was in a battle until, you know, of the last, you know, less than a week. but I'm going to say without, without Otani, would they have been able to pull off a Western division title? I doubt it. I doubt it. I mean, especially with, when he, you know, he, he turned it up.
00:27:46
Speaker
When he, he smelled that blood in the water to some degree and you know, that last, you know, he's the player of the month for September. He, he saw that finish line and he was going to make sure they got there. yeah I don't think that the Dodgers make it into the post-season without him this year. Right. I, I, yeah, I'm going to, I'm going to tend to agree on that one. Um, what do you think? I i think judge has the American league MVP locked up as well. I don't think there's anybody there that's going to.
00:28:17
Speaker
Seriously challenge him. um Probably not. I mean, I guess the only person I can even think of it again, I'm just talking out of whatever orifice, um, would be Juan Soto, right? I mean, Juan Soto had a really good year at his teammate and they had, you know, but the two of them were. I mean, and it's conceivable, they could split votes and I don't, whoever else, my bre that's ah I mean, Bobby Whit Jr. Bobby Whit Jr. Could slip me in there maybe. yeah Um, I mean, that's, I mean, that's possible. Um,
00:28:47
Speaker
I doubt it. though I think you're probably right. And that most people are going to put Aaron Judge first on their ballot and that'll be enough to give it to him. Yeah, um I think the American League. Cy Young, I think that's got to go to to school ball. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And no in any in any way, shape or form, it's got to go to school ball.
00:29:11
Speaker
yeah Although although there there is people there are people that are trying to make the case for Emmanuel Class A. Yeah, but it's, it's so difficult to make that case for a reliever, right? I know that he had such a great year and maybe if there wasn't any kind of dominant starter that you could go that way. And there's no doubt. I mean, it's kind of like Ryan Hillsley, right? The Cardinals aren't where they are, or which granted wasn't the playoffs, but they're not a 500 or above 500 team without Ryan Hillsley. And so class A is this in the same type of thing, right? that The guardians probably don't make.
00:29:47
Speaker
the world series with, or get to the playoffs without him. Um, although that bullpen was pretty, pretty strong all the way up and down, but you know, again, not only was screwball really good, he pushed his team into the playoffs. Oh yeah. So, and and a team that, you know, it's a trade deadline. Everybody's telling them to sell because they were so far out of it. So yeah, I don't, I agree. I don't think there's a whole lot of drama there either. Yeah.
00:30:13
Speaker
Uh, and we, we brought up Hillsley. I mean, people have brought his name up for the National League Cy Young, but, uh, I think he's got two guys, two guys to climb over there and Chris sale and Zach Wheeler myself. Yeah. You can't give.
00:30:30
Speaker
Again, there's only a perfect storm that would get you a reliever as SI Young. And part of that perfect storm has to be getting your team in the playoffs. Oh, yeah. I mean, it helps. They had a great year. ah But they I mean, there's no comparison for ah you know what he did versus you know sale. Did he end up with 50 saves?
00:30:53
Speaker
No, they stopped him at 49. They stayed at 49. Okay. Which I mean, honestly, he didn't have a chance to get 50 because he got 49. Then they lost on Saturday and then they won by, you know, what five on the final day, but they had said they were shutting him down. So he wasn't going to chance that he wasn't going to. Yeah. I mean, had he got to 50 saves and the Cardinals that at least made a wild card, then yeah, I say he's got, uh, uh, he'll get some votes. Yeah. But I think with what Chris sale did this year, I mean, he pretty much.
00:31:22
Speaker
It was either him or school ball that were pretty much leading all of baseball in it and you pick a category. They were like one, two almost all the way through. um Wheeler had a good year. I mean, he, he.
00:31:35
Speaker
You know, kind of will the Phillies into the playoffs as well. So I, I I'll say, I'll say sale just because, uh, I think he's got the better numbers, but you never know. I mean, um, Phillies got the vibe Braves limped in. So, you know, which, which one gets more weight?
00:31:54
Speaker
Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. And I think to go back to health leave for a bit, I do think he probably gets some votes because I think it's a five man ballot that the, at the Cy Young Lord wins. So somebody's going to put him a couple of people probably put him fifth or something. He'll get a few votes, but it won't mean anywhere. Well, and you know, like I said, there'll there'll be a couple of votes for class A. There'll be a couple of votes for Lugo. Oh, sure. Sure. You know, but I think school, like I said, school ball is going to run away with that AAL and, yeah and, um, you know, you'll see.
00:32:22
Speaker
The only one that that that I don't think he's I don't think he's going to get the Cy Young buddies. And I think he's going to get pushed out of Rookie of the Year possibility is Paul Skeens from the Pirates. Hmm. I mean, yeah, go ahead. Oh, I think I think ah um ah the kid from San Diego and I can't think of his name off the top of my head right now. Jackson Merrill. Yeah. Yeah.
00:32:48
Speaker
He's, um, I think he's, he's going to be your AL or your NL, uh, rookie of the year for sure. I think it'd be interesting to see how, how voters compare a, you know, ah a starting pitcher versus an everyday player. Um, because I mean, schemes was pretty.
00:33:10
Speaker
pretty dynamic. He couldn't meet the Cardinals, but you know, um but he was pretty, he was pretty dynamic this year. But you're right. You know, Merrill was great. Cheerio was great in, in, in Milwaukee. Yeah. I think in a lot of years, I mean, cause this wasn't a oh ah packed rookie class. A lot of years makes him win runs away with this, but oh yeah you know, now he's probably,
00:33:38
Speaker
If it's a three ballot, if it's a three person ballot, he may not even get votes because yeah or you not go somebody put him on the ballot. But, you know, he's not going to be very many because there are so many people that are yeah so many good guys in there. Sure. and Yeah. And I was looking over some of the American League top get guys that they're it's like um they're they're lowering standards to get a rookie of the year in the American League this year.
00:34:04
Speaker
There's just not really anybody that i can that i'm looked that I've looked at that this ah and said, yeah, I can see that. Yeah, I can see this. It just really just isn't. Yeah, I can't. ah he I mean, know again, even when I was paying a lot of attention to more than the Cardinals, the American League was never high on my list, but I can't think of anybody You know, just off the top of my head that stands out. Probably if I, if I had to pin it on an American league guy, I'd, I'd probably say Luis Gil from the Yankees. He's done a pretty good job. Uh, and the other, but the other guys, uh, that there's people were mentioning Austin Wells, the catcher for the Yankees, uh, Colton Kouser, uh, for the Orioles. Um, yeah, they've had decent years, but they're decent years are like.
00:34:54
Speaker
Uh, hitting two 40 with 17 home runs or something like that. I'm just, to me, that's just not a rookie of the year, but yeah, I mean, you know, it is a week ago. I mean, that was the.
00:35:05
Speaker
That should have been Jackson holidays award, right? And he was going to come in and take that. And, um, he just, you know, in his times in the major leagues, didn't quite click like but everybody thought he would. Um, and so, yeah, I think that you're kind of, you know, and there, there wasn't a lot there, but that's, that's, you know, that just means to some degree, there's a little bit of suspense on on figuring out who who actually does win that. Right. Right.
00:35:28
Speaker
Okay. Uh, we're going to come back and talk about the Cardinals here and right after this, uh, message from liquid Ivy. Have you heard about liquid Ivy? Well, it's a new way to hydrate and it's the number one powdered sports drink in America. It delivers two times faster hydration in water alone and three times electrolytes of traditional sports drinks.
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Speaker
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Cardinals' Season Analysis and Challenges
00:38:46
Speaker
All right, we are back. This is talking sports on the bleachers. I am Don Glenn and joining me today is Daniel Shoptaw. We've been talking a little baseball and now we're going to talk a little Cardinal baseball.
00:38:57
Speaker
Why we're doing it. We don't know, but we figured it'd probably a good idea to do it anyway. ah Well, I guess if you look at it. Year compared to last year, the Cardinals did better. I mean, at least record wise. Um, I, I was asked early in the year what I thought the Cardinal um season was going to be like.
00:39:23
Speaker
After the, uh, they acquired the pitching and stuff like that. And I looked at him like, well, you know, I know sunny gray is going to be probably worth 15 wins. Hopefully if that that works out, I, I had, um, pretty good hopes for, um,
00:39:42
Speaker
Michael is making a comeback. And then Gibson, I thought that was I thought he was a really good ah pickup. You know, the Lynn one, of course, that like I was scratching my head on that the whole time. He made sense as a fifth starter. If you're going to have matches, you're number four.
00:39:59
Speaker
Um, you know, but I said, well, you know, this team with this pitching staff, if the offense can come back and be better than they were last year, then I can see 85, maybe 87 wins and possibly an NL central title. Cause I really didn't think the Brewers were that strong, um, shows you how much I know. Right. So what was your feeling?
00:40:23
Speaker
I mean, kind of in that regard, um, I did think that the brewers were not, I figured that the brewers were a bit over, overhyped, you know, they lost, they lost, um, Trey council, they lost Corbin burns. Um, it just, it felt like they were in this position where they could be taken down. And I thought, yeah, the Cardinals were going to have enough pitching in an offense that was really going to click. And, you know,
00:40:51
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, I don't think, I don't think anybody was thinking much more than 90 wins. right Um, but probably the 85 to 86 range was probably most likely what, what a lot of people were thinking. Now, I mean, there were a number of people that thought this was a 500 team and you know, and that that weren't going to buy into that hype, but that didn't expect the, the pitching staff to be any good. and Um, and so I get that, but I think, yeah, I think for me, I was thinking 85, 86, it's a weak division and that might be enough to to get in there. Yeah. And, you know, and given the start that they had in April, which, you know, I was, I think a lot of people when they were having their issues in April looked at that and said, okay, just like last year, you know, um,
00:41:43
Speaker
But they did manage to turn it around and, you know, for, for a period there and in June and July, or they, you know, they were threatening to make a ah race out of it. And, you know,
00:41:58
Speaker
I don't think anybody envisioned Goldie being down as long as he was, um struggling as much as he was. I don't think they envisioned obviously the the the flood of outfield injuries we had at the start of the season. I mean, that whole outfield that Moselok was talking about during the off season of Newt Barr,
00:42:25
Speaker
Edmond and Walker never materialized. yeah you know so um But to get where they dab, I'm not trying to make the excuses because it there there are no excuses. I mean, they just they just didn't get it. um you know You can point to Uh, Goldie, you can point to Gorman having his issues. You can point to Walker being sent down yet again, uh, to try and fix his swing. Um, yeah. I just don't know what to think of how all that was playing out. And then you've got so much of.
00:43:11
Speaker
Moselox press conferences and interviews started out with, well, we need to be patient. You know, well yeah if I had had a dollar for every time he said the fans need to be patient, I probably could have retired tomorrow, you know? Yeah, but I mean, and in in um I get that and I get it frustrating for a lot of people, but I also think, you know,
00:43:37
Speaker
Again, I mean, look at what the Astros were in what may, right? One of the worst teams. Now they're in the playoffs. Yeah. Um, you know, I, you do look, the Cardinals were on, on May, on Mother's day, they had the same record.
00:43:52
Speaker
as they did at the same time at that point the year before. Right. And then they went on that run where the first six weeks they were the best team of baseball. Yeah. Um, so yeah, I mean, you see that that's why, that's why they sometimes they expect you to pay. Now the patience doesn't always pay off. Right. And I think that sometimes, ah sometimes they needed to be a little bit more open with problems that they probably saw. Mm-hmm.
00:44:19
Speaker
but didn't necessarily want to talk about or talk about in public. Um, and hope that, and it may have been a little bit of, let's just hope that it gets better. Um, but there was also like, what are you going to do? Right? I mean, the pitching staff, the pitching that John was like when I got Lynn Gibson, Sonny gray basically did what we expected, right?
00:44:44
Speaker
Oh yeah. I mean, Lynn actually, I mean, early in the year, you know, Gibson was incredible. By the end of the year, Lynn was, you know, I think, except for, you know, he was injured a lot, but you know, what he did was probably even better than we expected. Sonny Gray had those stretches where he was rough, but for the most part, that number one guy he thought of. So, Joe Mozeluk went into this winter thinking he needed to fix the pitching staff. He went and got pitchers and they did what they were supposed to do.
00:45:11
Speaker
It's just that, you know, this young core of hitters weren't hitting, but what do you do? I mean, you know, I mean, it didn't walk her down, you know, Newt's hurt. Well, you know, what do you do there? You know, they, they probably, they promoted Victor Scott too fast. i yeah Well, that, that was unfortunately out of necessity. They didn't, they didn't have anybody else. Well, they they did, but then to some degree, yes. And some degree they weren't ready to.
00:45:38
Speaker
They could have gone with Michael Cianni then and gotten basically the same production. right um In fact, it i I think that might've done better for Victor Scott in the long run, but you whatever. I mean, Cianni was ah ah a bit of a revelation in the fact that he played amazing defense. His bat's still nothing um to even, I'm not sure he has bat honestly at times, but um but you know, Norman Norman, what do you, I mean,
00:46:07
Speaker
You have to kind of ride him out, right? I mean, um, Goldie and Aranado, there's nothing you can do about those guys. They, you have to expect that they're going to hit. Um, so I think there was a little bit of somewhat being painted into a corner that these were not guys that you could just, they weren't the, the middle prospect type guys where you could just swap them out. right Um, they were the guys that you had to sink or swim with and the cordial cyclical.
00:46:37
Speaker
Yeah. I think, I think that's, that's true in a lot of respects. I also think if they, if, if they, if when they brought this and assembled this team to come North, um, the two bench players that got the most pub, if you will, being Carpenter and Crawford, um, you know, a Carpenter, I could see, I mean, he made a little bit of sense adding a left-handed bat.
00:47:06
Speaker
You know, a bench, left-handed bench bat, because he did actually, he does pretty well in that pinch hit role and you weren't going to count on him to play every day. So, you know, it made sense. The Crawford thing never, ever made sense to me. I know.
00:47:22
Speaker
ah Edmund was out and and they were looking for that backup at shortstop, but, um, yeah, I just think they didn't plan that bench deep enough with the right players. Um, that was until, uh, control or a Herrera got hurt or was it Contreras? Contreras when he got hurt yeah and you brought up pages, uh, which we'll get to this, we'll get to that little thing here a little bit. Uh, but.
00:47:49
Speaker
You know, then you knew, came back and then he was down. Then he came back. I mean, about the only consistency you really had on that entire roster for the, for the whole season was Donovan and Burles. Mason win. Oh, and win. Yeah. Excuse me. mason yeah and And I think I'd agree with you on the Crawford thing. Crawford.
00:48:12
Speaker
Matt Carpenter at least had the history with the Cardinals. And if you're looking for leadership, and they really did seem to think that they needed leadership, and we've heard stories this year about how Carpenter you know helps Burleson, how Lance Lynn worked with you know Andre Polante, that leadership seemed to have really taken root this year. So I think they would they wanted that kind of leadership They wanted Brandon Crawford there to help Mason Wynn become a better shortstop overall. And I think that in a vacuum that makes sense, it doesn't work when you have a Matt Carpenter, when this is two thirds, this is like, you know, half of your bench or two thirds of your bench or whatever it looks like. And a guy that
00:49:03
Speaker
You know, and' I'm sure they were hoping he would do a little bit more than he did, but, you know, without the leadership thing, you just, you should have run with Jose Fermรญn. I mean, he was going to do just as well, if not better than Brendan Crawford. I don't know. I mean, we heard some talk about, and I think Wynn has said that Crawford gave him some you know help and stuff like that. I just don't know that he did enough.
00:49:27
Speaker
To make that really makes sense. Yeah. Um, to warrant having him there for as long as they kept him there. right I mean, I thought, I thought at the deadline, um, either Crawford and Carpenter or at one of those two would have been gone. I think I was kept, I kept thinking one of those two are going to be shopped somehow, somewhere DFA, whatever, to make room for a solid role player on that bench. And it never happened.
00:49:57
Speaker
um Um, you know, is that the fair? I mean, granted Mo went out and got, got more pitching because he needed it because Matt's was again on the injured list, um, seems to be his best position. Um, but you know, I still think he could. And, and when you look at what some of the deals he made the off season, which I think he's still going to get roasted over the O'Neill over, uh, Tyler O'Neill.
00:50:26
Speaker
Um, just because they DFA, the player they got for it. Yeah. Yeah. You know, that doesn't look good. I agree. That doesn't look good. at all Especially after the a year O'Neill had, of course, he also was playing in a band box out there. So, you know, and he got hurt some too, which is he need to get hurt some you know that' still managed hit 30 home runs. Sure. Sure. i say He's playing in Boston, you know? Right. Right. And he, I.
00:50:51
Speaker
It was fairly clear going into this winter that those two sides had to split, right? He needed to change the scenery. And he knew that if he was healthy, he would probably hit somewhere. But um i can't I can't fault that. I just On Crawford, I wonder if he had if he had come available before Matt Carpenter, if they would have just gone with Crawford. um i I don't know because you know Carpenter does have those you know deep roots with the Cardinals and they like that.
00:51:25
Speaker
Um, I just, it almost felt to some degree like Brandon Crawford was a guy they'd always wanted to have on their team and he was their only chance to do it. And so they were going to, they were going to run with that. Um, but he was obviously not the player that continued to bedevil the Cardinals in the, you know, the in the last decade, he, he was not that guy. I mean, and and your, your, your point about Carpenter would be, I mean, I think if, if Mo wouldn't have had to do it.
00:51:53
Speaker
I don't think he would have DFA'd carpenter. Well, he didn't. I mean, carpenters still around. You mean Crawford or a couple of years ago when they do a couple of years ago. Yeah. A couple of years ago. And I said, not DFA. They just kind of let him. Yeah. They just let him go as a free agent. Let him go as a free agent. Yeah. I don't think had had the numbers been at least slightly better.
00:52:15
Speaker
You know, where he wasn't hitting below his body weight, um, you know, then maybe carpenter sticks around over the last couple of years. And who knows what that team would have looked like. Um, I want to get into pitching a little bit more. Um, what did you make of, uh, the three additions to the bullpen? I know one, we didn't get it. Didn't get to see a lot of this year. Um, but what about Kittredge and Fernandez?
00:52:42
Speaker
You know, I, for all the grief that the Cardinals get on development and determining talent and all that kind of stuff, which is fair. I think there's a lot to that to see what Ryan Fernandez could be and to take him as a rule five and then commit to him is a credit to them. Now, and again.
00:53:04
Speaker
You remember that first week of the season, he couldn't get into a game when they were winning by like 10 runs or losing by 10. They couldn't get it. He wouldn't come into a game, but it did not take a whole long time before his arsenal showed that he could do high leverage situations. And they put him in that um it was.
00:53:24
Speaker
It was really impressive, I think, to see what he did on the whole. I mean, obviously he had his ups and downs, just like any reliever's going to. right I mean, even Ryan Hillsley had a few games like that. um But yeah, I was...
00:53:39
Speaker
I think we knew when they got him that he had a chance to be something pretty good. We were really, and you know, I think talking to a lot of people this winter, we we really thought, you know, Mo put together a really good bullpen in a really good way. You know, a lot of cheap arms, different areas that didn't, that had the potential. And Fernandez showed that. And Kittredge did as well, right? I mean, you know,
00:54:01
Speaker
Everybody was worried about, and we talk a lot about the early years ago, you know, or the outfielders to go away like Tyler O'Neill, but you know, Richard Pelosi has had a ah good start to his season, but after that, I, you know, I didn't hear much about him. yeah I mean, I'd have to look his numbers up, but, um, I think that turned into be quite a ah good trade. And I would like to think that they're going to you know try to resign him, but you know, that gets into some other issues.
00:54:25
Speaker
Um, but if, and if it's just a one year, you know, stint and St. Louis, I think he did a job and did it well. Yeah. Uh, go to the mid season pickup we made with, uh, with, uh, fatty. Yeah. Um,
00:54:44
Speaker
I didn't mind what they gave up. I've never been a huge Tommy Edmond person. I think he's obviously a valuable part part of the team, but I also think he's a little bit overvalued um in St. Louis. And I felt like I never quite understood why he, how he became a center fielder.
00:55:01
Speaker
um but you know Obviously, Fedi wasn't quite as sharp as he was with the White Sox. I don't know if that's because the league started to catch up with him a little bit um after coming back over from from Asia. um I don't know if that was going into a little bit.
00:55:19
Speaker
higher pressure situation because heaven's knows there was was no pressure at all on the white talks this year. and um not at all sure So I don't know. I think he did fine. He did well. I think he's, you know, he's seven and a half million, I think for next year. right He's going to be slotted in as probably the number two I'm a little bit concerned because we've seen, like Miles Michaelis, we've seen guys come over from Korea or Japan and have a really good first year and struggle as Lee kind of adjusts. So I'm a little bit concerned about that, but I think for the price that he is and and what the Cardinals are going to get, I think he's
00:55:59
Speaker
Gonna be fine. I think it was I think it was a really smart move and then to get Tommy fam even if that didn't last real long um You know, it was a feel-good moment with Tommy fam. It was to me it was see him come full circle back to where he started and You know and I love the first game back. I mean first at bat boom I know you just didn't know that was the highlight and everything was downhill from there, but yeah. um and's But yeah, I mean, it it didn't turn out the way we we probably liked it. I think there were some interesting usages, especially when that was about the time they brought toward Walker back up to be this platoon bat and, you know, all this weird stuff that was going on. I just, yeah. So do you think they, do you think, and ah because I, I've been talking with like yeah a bunch of different people about it.
00:56:49
Speaker
Have they ruined Jordan Walker and or Nolan Gorman with thought with the whole up and down and changing the swings and all this crap because they're trying to fit, make them fit into analytics. They should, they probably don't fit into ah Nolan Gorman. I. e No one has always had a lot of swing and miss in his game. And I think this was always a possibility, right? That he was going to be the boomer bust, the the rob deer, if you want to go back as far as we do, um you know, they that kind of guy. um There was always a possibility of that. So I don't know that I would fault the Cardinal and they didn't
00:57:30
Speaker
I don't feel like they rushed him as much no up just up there, you know, they kind of moved him up. And and I think you it was, it was interesting that they devoted him. I think it was probably past time to do that. I mean, nothing else for a mental reset. Jordan Walker is an interesting case um because I think there's an argument on, on either side, and I'm not one to know a lot about, you know, swings and stuff like that, but just, you know, just the fact that they,
00:57:59
Speaker
They used ah a hot spring and not even really a hot spring. He had a hot first half of spring last year. He had already started to cool off before um the season started. And then, you know, they went ahead and promoted him anyway. You know, a rough start. He goes down, he comes back up. um right And then I don't know, you know, how have they tinkered too much?
00:58:22
Speaker
um you know he had a great i wouldn't say great but he had a fairly solid on the second half last year right oh yeah um so i don't know what the full deal is there i mean i think it's gonna be interesting to see how he does develop i i think there's a there's a better than even chance that he's not gonna reach the potential that we thought he was gonna reach. I mean, he ended last year at 276 with a 342 on base, a 445 slug, 16 home runs, 15 RBIs. And I think you're right, the second half, you when he once he when he came back after his demotion, if you will,
00:59:05
Speaker
Yeah, he came back in June, hit 338 in June. Then he cooled off a bunch until September last year, but I was i was kind of on the fence whether they moved him up to early or not. um I thought, okay, he's done about everything he's going to do in the minors.
00:59:21
Speaker
Um, but you know, I could see the point of, okay, is he actually ready since he's not playing as since he's only been playing outfield for what? One and a half seasons at that point are not even a, maybe not even a full season. yeah Um, but then the other side of me was, you know,
00:59:43
Speaker
If he's going to bring, be brought up, he had to play. Right. I weren't going to bring him up just to put him as a platoon player. No, no, that never made a lot of sense. And then, you know, and the fact is you bring him up when he's going to be a platoon player, and then you're not going to have any left-handed starters for quite some time. So.
00:59:59
Speaker
You know, it it didn't make a lot of that and was a weird. Um, and so I'm, I'm very interested to see the high and bloom taking over a lot of this player development stuff, which is, you know, typically the minor leagues, but I have a feeling like it's going to, you know, on, on players like.
01:00:15
Speaker
Walker and Ormond, you know, some of that philosophy is going to trickle to them as well, even if they are in the big leagues. So I'm interested to see if, if there is a change, you know, if there's stuff that they work on in this winter and then they come back looking good next year. I hope so. yeah um I don't, I definitely don't think it's time to give up on Jordan Walker. I i do.
01:00:40
Speaker
I don't, I don't want to give up on Nolan Gorman. I would say, you know, again, I'm just not sure that there's ever going to be more than a boomer bus kind of guy. Yeah. And I agree. I mean, I don't want to give up on Gorman either, but, but part of me does see the, the, uh, feasibility that even, even though he has a high strikeout guy, high swing in this guy, you know,
01:01:06
Speaker
in the right situation with the right lineup, he could have some potential. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. And so I mean, so I could see him being shopped again. I don't want to give up on him and shop him too early. But then again, you know, how long do you want to wait? How long do we wait for Harrison Bader? Yeah. Yeah. yeah me I mean, do you want another Harrison Bader on the team is what um is is you know is the point. So ah one guy that's impressed me this year and I wrote about him once earlier in the year, is ah Pedro Pajas.
01:01:42
Speaker
yeah yeah Is he gonna make it difficult for Herrera and or Contreras to stay with the team? The catching situation is, he is a situation, I agree. um You know,
01:02:01
Speaker
Given what we heard about at the PAW press conference yesterday, and I know we probably still, we'll talk about that maybe in a little bit, but yeah um I think there's a non-zero chance that Wilson Contreras decides, you know, this isn't what I came here for. And so then you go into the season with Herrera and Pajes. But if not, I don't know. I mean, I am, I think Herrera is better than Pajes overall.
01:02:30
Speaker
But by if you've got Contreras as your main catcher, if Paul has his, as your backup, that's, that's perfectly acceptable. And maybe that means you trade Yvonne Herrera for something else, because not only you got these guys, you've got Jimmy Crooks who just won um Springfield, you know, double AMVP. You've got Leonardo Bernal, who's back there. um You know, a couple other guys here and there that, you know, catching is a pretty strong suit or has seems to be.
01:03:00
Speaker
Well, and pardon well and you know the other thought is, if if the Cardinals won up want to play the youth card and shop Contreras for a pitcher, because you could get a lot better pitcher with Contreras than you're going to get with with Ivan Herrera. Right. um It's just that Contreras has no trade clause. Oh, that's true. I forgot about that. I hate NTCs.
01:03:25
Speaker
Well, and again, the players deserve them too, right? I mean, if they want to stay a place that's, I think that they should have some control over where they go. Yeah, I agree. I mean, um you know, I think that's what Kirk flood wanted, right? So, um, to some degree. Um, but, but yeah, I think that, you know, in a vacuum. Yeah. But then again, I mean, you look at this and that's what bothers me on, uh,
01:03:52
Speaker
Because I don't come at this as cold and calculating and and analytical and as, as maybe we should. I don't know. I feel like, I feel like part of what baseball is, is it's got to have the passion and it's got to have them based and you've got to have.
01:04:08
Speaker
some irrationality in it. it's hard to take It's hard to take off the Homer hat once in a while. yeah Well, and I mean, I just, I don't think you want to, you don't want to make, if if you're going to run this by computer, then what do we have? You know, let's just simulate the games, right? But, um, you know, I think about,
01:04:25
Speaker
Herrera saying, hey, I was at what? Home run number six hundred and ninety five or for Albert or whatever it was. Right. And the Cubs were playing. And man, that's when I decided I wanted to be a cardinal. And I made it work. And I, you know, he he you know got his agent to get to. he He wanted to be in St. Louis. Right.
01:04:43
Speaker
And I think about, you know, Nolan Aronado and Sonny Gray are both the same way, right? They made efforts. I mean, I think Nolan completely orchestrated that trade to St. Louis. And I don't think there's any doubt. in yeah Yeah. Yeah. And um and Sonny Gray could have gone a lot of different places. He wanted to come here in part because it's close to Nashville and where he lives. And um so to trade any of those guys,
01:05:10
Speaker
I mean granted they have the notary they would have to wait a bit so they'd be right more open to it but still to me that's a rejection of one this idea that you know people want to come to st louis um and i i think that's the biggest thing right i mean he's just kind of saying hey it's cool that you're going to be here but now that you've served her purpose.
01:05:35
Speaker
um you know And in granted, it's also a situation where they are didn't they came here expecting to win. And over the next couple of years, there may be a little bit less of that. So it's understandable that they may have changed their minds. But i just you know I think about that. I think about like Lance Lynn and Kyle Gibson, who both said, you know made a point of wanting to be in St. Louis.
01:05:56
Speaker
And here they are, they're probably going to decline, I guess, both options, right? um I just think that little bit of extra wrinkle. It's one thing when a player comes to St. Louis and it's more of a job than a really a destination. um The Cardinals made ah an effort to get people that made St. Louis a destination. And now you have those ramifications of what happens when you want to try to move them. Yeah. A couple of the quick things about young kids, and then we'll get to the press the press conference from Monday.
01:06:24
Speaker
Has Michael McGreevy made a case to be looked at as a rotation piece for next year?
Future Prospects: Michael McGreevy and Chaim Bloom
01:06:32
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I think so. I think he has to be. Um, I've never been a huge McGreevy person. I kind of thought he was Dakota Hudson 2.0, but you know, reading some articles and well, of course what we've seen, but also, you know, I think he's added a pitch. He's, he's up to strikeout levels.
01:06:48
Speaker
Um, what we've seen in the big leagues is minimal, right? I mean, right really small sample size. Yeah. Very small, especially when one of those starts is the last day of the season for two teams that are eliminated. Those kinds of games are usually like very, very quick, right? I mean, they're not, you know, trying to drag out a bath or anything. Um, so I, I think that.
01:07:13
Speaker
If the Cardinals were acting like the Cardinals have been, he might've had less of an opportunity, but the way that things are gonna go, I, yeah, I expect he is gonna be in the running, ah seriously in the running for a spot and maybe even, I mean, he may even be looking at like the fourth starter spot or something of that nature. really I mean, I mean, what do you look at? You look at something great, assuming, assuming they keep, you know, people, sunny gray, Eric Fetti, and then maybe what? Andre Polante. And then Michael listen, I mean, Michael is, you can't, I mean, Michael is might be listed as your third starter or something, but Michael is just your fifth starter. Right. no I'm saying, I'm saying as far as in, as far as in that whole mix, Michael. Yeah. Yeah. Michael, this is probably going to be that fifth star. I think he's going to be, cause I don't think there's any way that you can get rid of him and you're paying him enough money. Um, but it's finding your best contract anyway. So might as well just let it play out. And if he's, if he's shit at the deadline, you that you get rid of it, you know? Yeah. I mean, I mean, the longer you go into the season, the more, more it's possible to, to cut loose with him exactly if if you need to. But yeah, I wouldn't, I mean, I'm not saying that that's where he's going to be because I think there's some other arms and there's some other things, but.
01:08:27
Speaker
I think the way he's played right now, if you're penciling a rotation together, that's probably the way you do it. Unless I'm overlooking somebody that I don't know about right now. but you ah the only The only guy I could see that that that would have a say so in that. and and Well, two guys, only because one, he's got another two years left on his contract. Um, the Steven Matt's, but like I said, I think his best position is in, is, is, uh, I L. Um, and I think you'll be able to be in peace. Honestly. I mean, I think you'll be a bullpen piece this last year. I think that's what they're going to put in a minute. The other one would be Andre Palante. And I think he's the third starter. Yeah. Yeah. He, he could, he could, you know, he could make it difficult for a couple of people. Um,
01:09:15
Speaker
What with, with the obvious, I shouldn't say obvious, but it's looking more and more obvious every day that they are not going to make any move on Goldsmith to keep him around and have him retire as a Cardinal. It brings up the question of who plays first-based. Do you give it to, uh, Burleson or do you finally reward Luke and Baker?
01:09:43
Speaker
who has spent, uh, uh, what 10 years in the minors. I mean, he's been there a while for sure. So, um, honestly, I'm not really excited about either one of those options. Um, I am not, I'm not either. I mean, I would probably.
01:10:03
Speaker
I would probably look at moving Dorman to first and letting Donovan play second regularly. That's just kind of what I would think. Burleson obviously it needs to be out of the outfield. There's no doubt about it.
01:10:18
Speaker
I'm a little bit concerned because it it's almost like he had a really great, he had that, you know, he was really hot when the card was really hot, but his second half was terrible. And, you know, when you factor in the rest of his career, you start wondering a little bit like how, how much can you rely on him? I like him a lot. I'm hoping that he can do a lot. Um, but I don't know that I'm willing to put him at first base and let it go. Um,
01:10:48
Speaker
And you know, I think Jordan Walker is also an option for that. Luke and Baker, I'm just not convinced is not more than a quite a guy, right? yeah Probably too good for too good for Memphis. Not good and not good enough for right. I get you. I get you yeah a bench bat or something like that. Maybe, but you know, every day starter, I wouldn't want to go there. Okay.
01:11:11
Speaker
All right. Well, the Cardinals had a press conference on Monday, um, and introduced chain bloom as the new president of baseball operations, but he doesn't get the job till 2025.
01:11:24
Speaker
Um, he has been put in charge of a player development and we touched on that a little earlier. Um, what did you make of the comfort, the press conference?
01:11:39
Speaker
Um, I have a lot of thoughts on that. We, we talked about it on gateway to baseball heaven last night. I need to write a sub stack on it. Um, I, I think my biggest takeaway from watching the press conference was that I am, I have been instilled to some degree am a build a wit defender. I think that he has done a very good job with this team. I think you look around the league and you see the ownerships that are in place in places like what used to be Oakland, what Pittsburgh, there was just a report out tonight about how Miami was taught. And there's, you know, they're talking about firing like everybody down to the
01:12:26
Speaker
you know, concessions to end guys. I mean, you see, I mean, and literally like it's just clearing out call pass attendance, everything like that. And you so you look at those kinds of situations and you think, you know, Hey, the dwits, the dwits put money into this team. They, they, you know, care about the history of this team. They have brought a lot of success to St. Louis, but watching that press conference really made it feel like they don't get it anymore, right? You know, that there was the the questions about kind of like, how did this happen? And Build-A-Wit is still saying, well, it didn't really happen. You know, it was like, you know, we're still, we were still always developing well and just somehow Major League Baseball passed us. You know, it was just like, it wasn't anything we did.
01:13:14
Speaker
And, um, I think it'd been very easy to get up there and say, look, we, we got on the top and we took her off the ball a little bit. You know we know, we thought we could do this and all of a sudden, you know, teams are innovating and we.
01:13:28
Speaker
We weren't and now we need to. Now we understand that. in it you know There are situations like that that you know they could have at least acknowledged that something was wrong and that had been wrong and they're trying to fix it. And yet it was almost like they had this press conference in spite of themselves, right? They really didn't want to have this press conference. They did i kind of got that feeling. I kind of got that feeling that they were, they were so hesitant. I wouldn't say hesitant, to but they were so guarded on how they were answering the questions. You know, it was like, why did you even have the presser if you're not comfortable in answering questions?
01:14:08
Speaker
You know, it's like he read that opening statement under duress, you know, a little bit. um And then then he was going to, um you know, push back on any kind of any kind of, you know, slur, I guess, against against what they have been doing. Right. And so and to me and and again, I've put this out on Twitter and I have gotten a number of people disagreeing with me in fairly strong terms as well. But, um, to me, I feel like for all the grief that John Moselow gets, and he deserves some grief, right? I mean, some of these free signings have been terrible. Some of these trades have not worked out. Um, some of the, you know, in the fact that this problem did happen under his watch,
01:14:53
Speaker
But I think without John Mosalock, this problem continues. I think that you know listening to him, listening to some other things, it really sounded like he has been working on build a whip for a little bit of time and saying, look, we need more resources in the minor leagues. We need this. We need somebody to come in here. And he was the one that pushed to get Heimbloom in there. He was the one that wanted Heimbloom to be.
01:15:14
Speaker
the eyes and ears of, you know, get that audit done. And he was the one that advocated to have him, you know, stay in this organization. So, um, you know, is it all, you know, uh, selfless, probably not. Um, and, and there is no doubt that, you know, there's still some of this problem comes to his doorstep, yeah but I think that he has a,
01:15:40
Speaker
awareness of what the Cardinals mean, and he's willing to take the hits to try to get them back up here. Because I think a lot of people are saying, well, why do you keep John Moselok? You know, but um he's got another year on his contract, but why why keep it? Why not just let Bloom go into the Pobo role now? Well, one,
01:16:01
Speaker
as we see the minor leagues are the most important thing. Honestly, high and blooming and player development this year is probably more important than whoever's in a president of baseball operations. I mean, I just think that's it. I think it's way more. I think it's, it's more important to the future of this club, but also any kind of move that needs to be made, like not signing the ultimate, like trading Wilson Contreras, if that happens,
01:16:25
Speaker
jama's a like takes the heat right and then heimbloom comes in kind of with a fresh slate and uh a fresh mentality so i think there's i don't know if that was designed or if that's just a happenstance but i think there's a lot to that i think jama's a look is comfortable enough with his with his legacy that he's willing to go out you know as the most hated man in in uh in st louis is You know, as the old, the, the Batman quote goes, you either die a hero or you live long enough to be the villain. And I think willing to do that because he thinks that that's what this organization
Cardinals' Management and Innovation Issues
01:16:58
Speaker
needs. Right. You know, listen to what they were talking about and, and, and Heinbloom and, and how he was viewed, uh, you know, what needs to, what needs to be fixed when he said everything, um, you know, that I think has been, excuse me.
01:17:18
Speaker
The contention with a lot of fans is, you know, they'll, they, there's all, and, you know, some people call it, you're, you're the, the, the fairway, their fan makes you, you gotta to find something to complain about you. But, you know,
01:17:35
Speaker
There were those things to complain about. I mean, you know, you had the, the bullpen not be as sharp. You ended up getting rid of Gallegos. Um, and you've got the up and down with Walker, you've got the, the Gorm, you got, uh, uh, gold smitten and there and out are not up to snuff. And what do you do with these guys? And you know, you go out and you need to fix the pitching still, ah even after you fixed it. Um, and you go get.
01:18:03
Speaker
uh, Fetty instead of, um, another guy, not granted. You, you, you didn't, you lose a lot getting Fetty, but people felt, uh, at least fans I've talked to have felt, you know, he should have taken a chance. He should have taken a chance and shopped, uh, Gorman or somebody like that for, you know, within in a package with whoever for, um, you know, cease or somebody of that nature.
01:18:31
Speaker
and And and there's a lot to be said for that. um That being said, this offseason, there is a there's a really interesting situation on the pitching side of.
01:18:44
Speaker
um Blake Snell being available this year. Is that something you think the Cardinals would try to look at to?
Major League Teams' Financial Strategies
01:18:54
Speaker
Basically, you you bring in snow, then you've got snow, gray and. um Uh, fatty is your one, two, three. Before yesterday, I might've been able to talk myself into it, um, because that it would be what they needed to win at the major league level as a big starter like that. After yesterday, no, I don't think there's any, there's any potential way of doing that because they're not going to spend the resources.
01:19:26
Speaker
And the major league team, that but that was actually, that was unfortunate. The kind of the, the gist I got myself was that they're, you know, they're, they're going to look for more, uh, affordable and internal options than they are pushing an envelope. Yeah. I mean, though though I'm sure they'll pick up somebody, a couple of people here and there, but it's going to be in the vein of.
01:19:48
Speaker
go player bench bat Yeah. You, maybe you get a platoon bat for center field or, or something like that, but it's also going to be a guy that's spending four or $5 million. dollars And I think, you know, if you've come out and said that we have to focus, focus, focus on the minor leagues.
01:20:06
Speaker
then, I mean, one, of course, unfortunately, we don't necessarily get to see what they spend right on that. right So there's going to be a lot of, well, payroll went down $50 million. dollars Did you put $50 million dollars in the minor leagues? And I don't know that we're going to ever know that answer for sure. But, you know, I think that if that's the case, if you're going in that mindset, that you don't want them to spend $10 million dollars on some sort of half measure type thing, right? Because it's like, why are we spending this kind of thing when we could play somebody at league minimum or close to it, maybe get similar production and use those resources toward that development that we're trying to get to where we can be that sustainable machine we used to be. Right.
01:20:52
Speaker
And, you know, and I think yeah there are some kids down there that and a couple of them got to look see this year with Victor Scott, the second and Thomas to Casey. You know, I think both those guys do have a future in Major League Baseball. I'm just not sure if now is the right time.
01:21:16
Speaker
I mean, yeah, I think that that's, that's going to be really interesting to see how they, how they prioritize development. Right. I mean, cause is, is it better for Victor Scott to go back and spend another year in Memphis or is he, is he like, okay, you're not, you're not major league ready, but you're close enough and let's learn at the major league level. Um,
01:21:45
Speaker
I think maybe for Victor Scott, I would say that he probably is. I think we saw, he was starting to hit pretty well before Ciani came back. Um, he's got some, you know, he's still got some rough edges and I don't know, but I think he's gonna be, he probably will give you as much or more than Michael Ciani will going that horn next year. Um, you know, other guys though, yeah, I mean.
01:22:06
Speaker
Does a McGreevy, is a McGreevy ready for that? Or does he need to spend more time in Memphis and you find some bare bones veteran and that you can get rid of when he is ready? I, you know, I think that's going to be interesting to see what they think development is. And i is, is development focused completely on the minor of the leagues or does development happen at the major league level as well? Right. And.
Yadier Molina's Potential Front Office Role
01:22:34
Speaker
You know, which, which, you know, you, you put Heimbloom in as, as, as a player development. Uh, and I know we haven't heard a whole lot out of it after the signing is Yadier Molina still within the hierarchy of the front office of some kind. yeah audience I mean, I thought that was, but I thought that was supposed to be one of his jobs this year.
01:22:58
Speaker
Yachty still hadn't figured out where Busch Stadium is in these days. um you know We talked about it with Mo at the Blogger Day in the middle of the season and he said that Yachty had some personal issues, whatever that may be, whether that's a family issue, whether that's just needing some more time away. I think anytime that Yachty or Molina wants to come back,
01:23:20
Speaker
to an organization, he's probably going to have some sort of role. um You know, that being said, the longer he waits and the more turnover there is, you know, high and bloom. I mean, he knows the audio, you know, right? But he doesn't necessarily have the same connection to Yadi that that John Moselog does. And so he He can say no to Yachty if he wants to. um I think there's obviously a role for him. I mean, we saw how how bad Herrera and Pajes, especially both, especially Herrera, were about you know keeping runners on or are throwing runners out. you know Is there a job for him to be a roving catching instructor that may not take fell as much of his time? Yeah, maybe that's there.
01:24:03
Speaker
You know, I know that a lot of people, there's some people that put, you know, we just saw in San Francisco, right? Buster Posey took over as president of baseball operations. Really? I didn't hear that. Wow. Yeah. Yesterday he, well and he's a, I think he's a part owner of the team now too. um and And I'm sure that that will.
01:24:22
Speaker
I'm not sure that it's gonna go well for those giants, but I'm sure that Posey is a smart guy. And you you know this isn't just a, hey, we'll put a famous name there, but it feels like that. right and And then I think that's what it would feel like if you try to put Yachty and Melina in a role like that. In a big front office position like that. And I think there's some people that but think he should do that. and you know we We tend to think at times that because a baseball player is really, really good at his job,
01:24:49
Speaker
that he's going to be really, really good at any job, right? That Yachty and Pujols are people that can manage, or they can you know be hitting coaches, or they can be player development guys, or they can be this or that.
Rebuilding Strategy Scenarios
01:25:02
Speaker
and And maybe they can, but it's also just as likely as that those skills don't translate. So I don't know. Yeah.
01:25:11
Speaker
Well, I tell you what, Danny, I've kept you on for a while now and I think we'll go ahead and cut up with it. We could, we could, I could talk Cardinal baseball, all night you know, as far as that goes, but, uh, you know, we'll, we'll kind of try. I definitely want to have you on again, maybe around the winter meetings, we'll talk about, uh,
01:25:29
Speaker
You know, a couple months we get the coast of the wind and means we'll see what's going on. Maybe, maybe there'll be some more news out of the front office, but I'm kind of agreeing with you that they just look at just the tone and the timber of that press conference just did not leave me with a warm fuzzy.
01:25:46
Speaker
and know No, no, I think we'll still, I mean, most said that there'd be probably some news between now and the and winter meetings and that may be, you know, is, is all of all his staff coming back or are there changes there? Um, you know, some trades might happen before that are at least rumors of trades. Um, or he, you know, and to some degree, Moses, you know, said in that press conference, he doesn't necessarily know what payroll is. and You know, it may be where,
01:26:11
Speaker
you know, when you don't put a gold Schmidt there and you don't do, you know, you don't recognize the lent the options on Lynn and and Gibson that, you know, maybe that starts to. maybe Maybe we're not looking at a ah whole teardown like ah some people are saying. Right. Yeah, actually I don't think there's a whole teardown coming. I think it's just ah ah is' not a it's kind of in between a reload and a rebuild. Yeah. think I think that is that's the
Pitching Strategy and Coaching Effectiveness
01:26:36
Speaker
idea. Now, as I was talking to a friend my friend David, who does Gateway with me, um you know and he said, you know what happens if you trade a Contreras
01:26:45
Speaker
And does that, you know, like, does that start the snowball rolling? And that's when Gray and Arnaud are both asked to get, you know, be traded. And then all of a sudden you're in a rebuild, whether you want it to be or not or not. Exactly. Yeah, no doubt. No doubt about that. So anyway, actually, we'll do i definitely want to get you back on again. And you brought up the staff. I guess that's one quick thing. I was impressed because I don't I should say I would I will be impressed if I knew that the, uh, way they came up with handling Hellsley this year was, um, Dusty Blake's idea. You know, because I really, I've been on him like a cheap suit, the lab ever since he's joined the team.
01:27:36
Speaker
And this year, the way they handled Helsley and the way they handled the bullpen in general to me, I think was great. ah But the idea of keeping Helsley to this one inning, no matter what, if that was if that was Blake's idea, then I've got a newfound respect for the man as a pitching coach.
01:27:54
Speaker
Yeah, and I don't know. I mean, some of that is probably just tempering, but because trying to make sure you stayed healthy, right? I mean, there's some of that and not, not stretching him out as much. Um, I don't know where that came from. I didn't know that Blake has gotten gotten a lot of credit for like the addition, you know, like my one gravy's extra pitch or some of the stuff like that, that has, you know, people that have been adding pitches in the system.
01:28:18
Speaker
um Because he's also, you know, not only the major league pitching coach, but kind of the guy in charge of the pitching philosophy for the organization. So um I think if there's anybody that's safe on this staff, and there's there's a number of people that are, I don't think it's going to be a clearing. But if there's anybody that's safe, probably maybe even overall, it would be Dusty Blake. Okay.
Follow Daniel Shoptaw and Show Promotions
01:28:37
Speaker
Well, Daniel, tell everybody they where they can find you. I know I listed a little bit of at the top, but I didn't get all of it.
01:28:43
Speaker
Well, obviously you can follow me on Twitter at C 70 and that's where any kind of links and stuff are going to show up. Um, I want to meet me at mutual and get away to baseball heaven, which can be found pretty much any time you find podcasts, both of those shows can be, um, and the right sub stack, um, on the semi regular, um, it's cardinal 70.substack.com. Um,
01:29:06
Speaker
and that's pretty much it i think okay well you can always find me here or talking sports on the bleachers or the other podcast i do with russ robinson the ncw able presented by fuel sports network you can also find me on twitter ts otv gcs and You look for me on, um um ah I show up on Cardinal Pages, NCAA Pages now and again. So anyway, Daniel, it's been fun. I really enjoyed it. And we will talk to you again down the road. And for everybody, until I see you again, you have fun, you stay safe. And we'll see you again when we're talking sports on the bleachers. Good night, everybody.
01:29:50
Speaker
Don't forget to tune in to the Fuel Sports Network where you can catch Ron Nuttle with at the park. He also shows them on the team arrivals with Elliott and Pete and you have the two for three with a mighty moose Michaels, the Derek King show. You have this podcast and you have the NCAA report where I team up with my good buddy Russ Robinson. You can also check out the A team and their NFL reviews. Lots of stuff to get into. There's lots of articles to look at.
01:30:20
Speaker
So check it out at thefuelsportsnetwork.com